Leave Only Footsteps

[Schtumple]

I actually watched this a couple of days ago when I found the group on facebook. I'd actually agree that the naivety of the teenagers was evident from the start and obviously the statement about breaking into places stood out and seemed to taint it for me. In saying that the locations were well shot and I enjoyed that part of it. I think a documentary on some of the veterans that are on here (if they would agree to it, which I doubt tbh) would be a far more interesting video if you were considering doing a second documentary.

Thanks for getting the documentary, as has already been said as "I know nothing about urban exploring". How am I to know to better than statements given to me...? I just take what's filmed and try to build a film from that.

Some of the comments here this far have been pretty all over the place, at one part I'm being told the doc doesn't go far enough to explain urbex, but then on the other that there's nothing to explain...??

As for the comment of the financial compensation are you kidding me? If I was a high paid exec as part of a production company then sure that argument would be valid, but I'm just one guy, making a film about something I found enjoyment in, what's so wrong with doing that? Because you didn't like one quote that was said by one participant?? That's ridiculous...

I'm sorry I tried to make this piece on urban exploring, I genuinely am, I guess it was a mistake to try and show something I enjoy.

 

[analepsis]

Thanks for getting the documentary, as has already been said as "I know nothing about urban exploring". How am I to know to better than statements given to me...? I just take what's filmed and try to build a film from that.
....
I'm sorry I tried to make this piece on urban exploring, I genuinely am, I guess it was a mistake to try and show something I enjoy.

If you made more of an effort to acquire some first hand experiences and get a sense of what it's about, then not only would you have a more authentic film, you'd also probably get more respect from people, but most importantly you'd have some amazing experiences...

It's lame just to throw your hands up and say "well I know nothing about it!" ...pull your socks up and get out there doing it... then it's really only up to you how far you wanna go. One thing is for sure... you'll never be able to properly capture or convey what drives us to have these experiences if you've never really had them yourself...

 

[kebab1701]

Thanks for getting the documentary, as has already been said as "I know nothing about urban exploring". How am I to know to better than statements given to me...? I just take what's filmed and try to build a film from that.

Some of the comments here this far have been pretty all over the place, at one part I'm being told the doc doesn't go far enough to explain urbex, but then on the other that there's nothing to explain...??

As for the comment of the financial compensation are you kidding me? If I was a high paid exec as part of a production company then sure that argument would be valid, but I'm just one guy, making a film about something I found enjoyment in, what's so wrong with doing that? Because you didn't like one quote that was said by one participant?? That's ridiculous...

I'm sorry I tried to make this piece on urban exploring, I genuinely am, I guess it was a mistake to try and show something I enjoy.

Try not to get too disheartened by some of the comments, you won't be able to please everybody. As I said there were some nice shots to the documentary and you should definately do another.

As for the financial compensation, you have to look at it from the other persons point of view and the guys here that have been doing it for years have put alot of time and effort into some of their trips, so to expect them to basically hand over their experience and knowledge for nothing is quite alot to ask. That doesn't mean I wouldn't love to see a documentary on it as i'm sure there would be plenty of stories but you can't complain for the guys wanting it to be mutually beneficial.

What might be quite interesting is to continue to film the guys you done for the first documentary over a couple of years, i've got no doubts that their opinions and approach to exploring will change and it will be less about the "posting it and getting all the glory".

 

[dsankt]

As for the comment of the financial compensation are you kidding me? If I was a high paid exec as part of a production company then sure that argument would be valid, but I'm just one guy, making a film about something I found enjoyment in, what's so wrong with doing that? Because you didn't like one quote that was said by one participant?? That's ridiculous...

Why is the arguement for compensating your contributors nullified because you're not rich? What does your level of wealth have to do with the value of others' contributions? Are you making an appeal to altruism or some higher purpose, or are you just a cheapskate?

The quality of help you get is generally directly proportional to what you offer in return. I'm not saying the compensation has to be financial but either way you should be offering something back to those who help if you really value their contribution. Whether that's motivating them by appealing to their egos, their curiousity, or simply their bank account... you get the best shit by offering something equal in return. It's just one of the simple laws of the world.

If you're making a vid with your mates for shits and giggles that's one thing, but if you make a full length doco about urbex and you're leveraging the stories, skills and personality of others' to bolster your career/study/future, well that's not quite the same is it?

 

[snappel]

I'm sorry I tried to make this piece on urban exploring, I genuinely am, I guess it was a mistake to try and show something I enjoy.

Personally I thought it was cliche, predictable (given the title) and blinkered. What would be better would be either ditching the 'urban exploration' (or 'urbex' if you're dsankt ; ) label entirely (you'd have to be brave though, as presumably referencing this 'subculture' is what generates the interest in a film like this) or taking the time to get involved in this pastime to the point where you can make a film that encompasses all aspects of it, contradictory views, etc, etc. THEN stick the 'UE' badge on it.

Yes, you might have had some snotty replies to requests for help, but until you actually meet up with people to go exploring, without a camera in your hand, you're always going to come across as a 'user'. So how about persisting? Or taking an 'investigative' approach and 'infiltrating the infiltrators'? That in itself would have far more mileage. I mean for fucks sake, if you'd done that then you could've make a film about making the goddamn film.

 

[urbanity]

So how about persisting? Or taking an 'investigative' approach and 'infiltrating the infiltrators'?

or make like a flat fish and go plaice hacking*?

(is that OK Chris? )

*thanks Bukowsi Jr

 

[Oxygen Thief]

You're posts were undeleted days ago :freak

 

[BenCooper]

As for the comment of the financial compensation are you kidding me?

I wanted Russell Crowe to come star in my home movie - I offered to pay his bus fare and everything, and I explained I couldn't afford lunch as well, but he wouldn't come. Tight bastard.

Sadly, I see this attitude a lot with TV people - they think they're doing you a favour. The idea that you might want paying or some other non-financial benefit for appearing just doesnt occur to them.

Here's an idea - why not do a film about your urbex? Don't be a hanger-on with someone else, document your own exploring and your own reasons for doing it. That's the way to do a genuine documentary.

 

[Schtumple]

Sadly, I see this attitude a lot with TV people - they think they're doing you a favour. The idea that you might want paying or some other non-financial benefit for appearing just doesnt occur to them.

I never said at any point I thought I was doing anyone a favour, I'm doing this as a final project for my university degree, there was no budget behind this project, at all.

Here's an idea - why not do a film about your urbex? Don't be a hanger-on with someone else, document your own exploring and your own reasons for doing it. That's the way to do a genuine documentary.

Because of the restrictions of my university I couldn't do it as myself, I was required to find others, by making a film about myself I would've failed.

Just for the record, I'll state again, I had done urbex before I made the documentary, it was the interest of going around abandoned sites that swung my decision to making a doc on it.

 

[Styru]

Scrumple (or something like that) mate - don't take it all so personally - read this thread back - it has developed into a discussion of documentary making in general.

One thing you are wrong on though:

I couldn't do it as myself, I was required to find others, by making a film about myself I would've failed.

Familiar with the work of people like Louis Theroux? Mark Thomas? Justin Lee Collins?

Do all of their documentary films fail because they participate?

Participative research is a very valuable, well proven, form of research.

I really think you have misunderstood what you are trying to achieve if you feel that you are not allowed to participate for fear of being failed.

 

[spungletrumpet]

I really think you have misunderstood what you are trying to achieve if you feel that you are not allowed to participate for fear of being failed.

In other words, "fuck 'em!"

 

[Schtumple]

Scrumple (or something like that) mate - don't take it all so personally - read this thread back - it has developed into a discussion of documentary making in general.

Some of the harsher posts appear to have been deleted to be fair, it's difficult keeping track of what's left now.

One thing you are wrong on though:

Familiar with the work of people like Louis Theroux? Mark Thomas? Justin Lee Collins?

Do all of their documentary films fail because they participate?

Participative research is a very valuable, well proven, form of research.

I really think you have misunderstood what you are trying to achieve if you feel that you are not allowed to participate for fear of being failed.

It was a specification of the unit that you find external subjects, that's it simply put, if I'd done a documentary about myself I wouldn't have met the requirements of the project and wouldn't have got any marks.

I am thankful for the positive and constructive posts that I've received, I am taking it all onboard for my next project, this is essentially initial research on what not to do.

 

[One Flew East]

Schtumple, you elected to have a conversation with (and film) Kevin and Perry, though the majority of the replies herewith are from grown-ups.
Deduct away.

 

[DarkDog]

Schtumple, you could learn a lot by checking out Everyonefreezes post on Denbigh here

As an active explorer he's accepted by those around him and the ensuing photos form an acceptable photo essay that doesn't really need explaining. It doesn't matter whether you're shooting stills or video, wildlife documentaries, an Exposé or a Fly on the Wall style documentary - you need to blend in and be accepted. My advice would be to participate in urbex for 6 months, bust some shizzle, post a few reports and gain some trust. Once you've done that return to the filming and see how your attitude will have changed. There is no achievement without effort.

 

[Olz9181]

enjoyed most of it, although cringed in places.